Curse

Pericles · May 28, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Hey, recently i started pvping and what i first noticed when i got into a team is that there are only spike-teams: para-spike, rit-spik, etc.
So for the experienced people out there, was it always like this? , i like balanced teams too but apparently it's only spikes nowadays.

My second question is:
Could some1 explain me the Icy Veins team-build because i heard of it and it sounded very nice.

thx in advance

Living Parasite · May 28, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Yes there is always a 'meta', something rather easy to set up and is good at taking a few victories. The metagame nowadays is more spike-oriented. The meta wasn't always spike though.

Icy Veins is a team build where there are 8 necros who have high soulreaping and another attribute (usually either communing, restoration) and reapetedly spike targets down using Icy Veins while regaining energy through spirits' deaths and heal with restoration skills. IV is not run too much anymore since soulreaping nerf and IV's cost increased to 10.

Lorekeeper · May 28, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

hi

its a tough question to answer really... it depends on the following factors which are all down to individual player preference.

1. How much time are you prepared to commit to HA pvp?
2. Is this time you wanna spend in HA dedicated to farming fame or becoming 'good' at pvp?
3. Do you know any players in HA already or will you be starting from scratch?
4. Are you prepared to build up a friendlist or are you content with pug parties?

question 1 sort of sets the tone for the rest of the questions

players commiting casual playtime to HA

builds best suited for players who have less time to devote to HA are builds that can be run relatively quickly. In the current meta this is the Searing Flames build. For each elementalist, the build is very simple, and the amount of skill needed to run the build at an effective level is relatively low. Its basically a pick up and go team build, toughest requirement for the build is to have a good monk backline and a strategy+spike caller. At the lowest levels this build can enjoy some success in the early maps... at the highest levels it can compete with the best teams out there.

its not a difficult build to run effectively... makes it a good choice for casual HAers.

other spike builds

i dont play builds like rit spike... icy veins spike... so this is my opinion ive generated from fighting against them.

they are difficult to run well... but if they are run well they can be very very difficult to beat. Problem is... you learn very little being a player on this team unless you are the spike/strategy caller. The same goes for the searing flames teams and all spike teams using 1 character type in general. I hear some of these spike teams train backup callers... the most experienced spike teams have all their spikers capable of calling spikes... its rare but it can be done. If you are just starting out i doubt this will be the case.

balanced builds

if you got the commitment... and a team of players with commitment... time... patience... etc etc... the balanced build is the way to go as far as im concerned. Starting off with balanced will be difficult because it takes alot of experience to run well and to survive against the current HA meta. This is the biggest reason why people are reluctant to run balanced... it requires way much more patience and perseverence, skill and experience to run a balanced team effectively. You mostly see highly experienced gvg players and guilds running balanced because they have the necessary background (communication and individual experience/skill) to form an effective team.

you need to figure out what it is you are looking for from your time in HA.

different builds cater for different players
different builds cater for different attitudes towards pvp
if you can let us know what you wanna HA for... it would be easier to give you advice on what build is best suited for you but maybe i have given you enough info to make your decision...

lorekeeper

makosi · May 28, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Off the top of my head, I can think of Chain Lightning spike, Blood spike, Ranger spike, Death Swarm spike (not used often), Rit spike, Para spike, SF spike, Mystic Wrath spike, Invoke spike, Rainbow spike, Spiritual Pain spike.

The reason for this is that the builds are very easy to execute and the only person with 'talent' or 'skill' is the target caller. The remainder of the team only need to know which button to press after 3, 2 ,1.

Also, there aren't so many counters to spikes. Infuse Health and Cry of Frustration seem to be the only viable option if you actually want to counter the spike. Vital Weapon and Fertile Season are preventitive measures which can also be taken.

tomcruisejr · May 29, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

No. There was a time in HA when a Warrior (you know, the class that is first made by 99.23% of people who first play the game) heavy build with no solid defense dominated and rocked the corridors of the halls of the heroes and influenced PvP to consider the pressure as an offensive force. (Before, almost all builds were spike based - same class (your usual ranger or necro or ele spike) or mixed class(basically the same way how the same class spike builds are being played thus will make you ask yourself "what's the point".)). The build is not centralized and the roles of each one in the build truly complemented each other (Warriors need to kill so the necros can live longer and give warriors Damage buffs and heals and rangers cause the other team to disarray so warriors can easily pick targets and such and protect the necros if its IWAY vs IWAY. Now you get the beauty of the build.)

Now, the IWAY influence is evident in all aspects of Guild Wars. From suicidal wammos (and sometimes mesmers) in RA that doesn't care about his spirit spammer team mates or the know it all wammo who thinks that he can own all mobs in pve solo or from cockiness of FoTM and gimmick players who have the guts to trash talk everybody especially those bitter balanced people (saying "You suck at running balanced" or "Try hard more" or "No gg for balanced") and flash their emotes even they're bad players (but it feels good you know) to great GvG guilds such as War Machine (Remember their 4 warrior build?), KGYU and cow (who I consider great IWAYers trapped in fag builds) and the melee based metagame. So yea, all of those exist now because of 4 warriors, 2 necros and 2 trappers that once owned HA.

I think. I may be wrong. If I'm wrong, just pretend that this never existed.

God Apprentice · May 29, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

While spike builds are pretty dominant, spiking itself is nothing new, various non pure spike builds(looking at you balanced) have spikes in them, as the easiest way to drop a character is a spike. (2 Wars Evis,Exec with an IAS for example)

<3 for Syra

Div · May 29, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Spike builds are much better because of kill count maps now. It was sad to see that the only pug groups being formed tonight was paraspike, SFspike, og-spike, and ritspike. Usually your typical pug will be more inclined to play a spike because it takes the least amount of effort to put together and least amount of player-skill interaction. If you want to step it up and play balanced, then creating a friends list of players you know would be nice. Balanced pugs usually don't get played as much because they are more likely to get rolled if the players don't know each other well...

Lykan · May 29, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pericles

Hey, recently i started pvping and what i first noticed when i got into a team is that there are only spike-teams: para-spike, rit-spik, etc.
So for the experienced people out there, was it always like this? , i like balanced teams too but apparently it's only spikes nowadays

These days due to KC meta, winning HoH with balanced takes skill, which not many players have, so its spike, spike, spike - gogo!

Death_From_Above · May 29, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pericles

Hey, recently i started pvping and what i first noticed when i got into a team is that there are only spike-teams: para-spike, rit-spik, etc.
So for the experienced people out there, was it always like this? , i like balanced teams too but apparently it's only spikes nowadays.

Well there was a time in HAs former glory were players where counted as victors and heros legends if they had skill. This whole spike feast currently going on, my dear friend back in HAs prime it wasnt so. You saw a lot more build diversity, strange builds, fun builds. Of corse you saw spikes and sometimes the meta would shift say to spikes, then to balanced, then to hex then to pressure but always you found spikes were not the dominant build.

You saw many proffessions and many skills which you wont see now adays but hopefuly that answers your question, no HA was not basically spike orintated but it was balanced, you had the spike you had the gimmicks you had the balaned you had the hex you had the pressure. It was very fun to play in indeed, i remember it like it was 1959, hall of heros was a promising place to be battling for that alter.

You question you may ask, why has that changed. Well dear sir its because of the introduction of kill count and removal of alter maps. The changing of HA from 8v8 to 6v6 and then back to 8v8. This has left a dent in HAs population, less people less build ideas, less availbility of friends to run complicated builds like balanced with. Also it goes down to the pure fact kill count promotes spike so ye. Everyone basically runs it now because they know if they dont someone else will, and they will basically just roll them because of it.

phasola · May 29, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Sure there were bad things that happened HA before : IWAY, b spike, ranger spike, 6v6

. But the worst thing is kill count. Everyone spikes, and with the current win conditions, you can't afford to pack interupts to counter them properly. Just play RA :>.

ShadowsRequiem · May 29, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

Sure there were bad things that happened HA before : IWAY, b spike, ranger spike, 6v6

. But the worst thing is kill count. Everyone spikes, and with the current win conditions, you can't afford to pack interupts to counter them properly. Just play RA :>.

no before there we're actually some decent players.....

Thom Bangalter · May 29, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

no before there we're actually some decent players.....

this is not true.

ShadowsRequiem · May 30, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

this is not true.

your sarcasm detector must be messed up bad.